Apologetics at Saddleback
In a series of lectures by some of Christianity’s “brightest minds,” Darrell Bock, J. P. Moreland, Norm Geisler, William Lane Craig, Dinesh D’Souza and Greg Koukl tackled the toughest questions of faith, science and reason last weekend at Saddleback Church. The world's leading Christian apologists explored whether science has made belief in God obsolete, why evil exists and how the universe began. Afterwards, Pastor Rick Warren told the thousands of people gathered at the Lake Forest, California mega-church that the more he learns about faith and science the more he’s amazed at the intelligence of God and the mind-boggling nature of His creation.
In today's postmodern world, skeptics view the miracles of Jesus as fairy tales that can't withstand serious, intellectual investigation. Ironically, the debate whether Jesus could perform miracles wasn't a pressing question in the ancient world. Rather, the Jewish authorities were more curious whether Jesus' powers came from "above or below."
"The role of miracles in the Bible is a stumbling stone for people today," Dallas Theological Seminary Research Professor of New Testament Studies Darrell Bock told thousands of people gathered Sept. 5-6 at Saddleback Church.
In the Flavius Josephus' book, "The Antiquities of the Jews," the 1st century historian described Jesus as a "wise man" who was a "doer of wonderful works" – which in Greek means "unusual or amazing things," Bock told the audience at the sprawling campus in Lake Forest, California.
"What Josephus is telling us is that Jesus was known for the kind of surprising works he did," Bock says. "Now, we also know the Jewish tradition called Jesus a magician or sorcerer. These miracles left an imprint – with some people saying they believed it was from God and others saying they didn't believe it was from God. But there was one thing both sides didn't debate: Jesus was doing miracles."
As part of a series of lectures at the 22,000-member church, Pastor Rick Warren invited some of the "brightest minds" of the Christian faith - Bock, J.P. Moreland, Norm Geisler, William Lane Craig, Dinesh D'Souza and Greg Koukl – to talk about some of the "toughest questions" concerning faith, science and reason. The lectures were designed to equip Christians to "stand up and be counted" for Jesus Christ and learn how to thoughtfully share their faith with others.
Bock, one of the world's preeminent authorities on the life of Jesus, gave a message on the topic, "What Do the Gospels Really Say about Jesus?" In his presentation, Bock walked the audience through the synoptic Gospels – Matthew, Mark and Luke – telling the story of Jesus from the "earth up" and showing how he exercised authority over humanity. Bock spoke about the healing of the paralytic man, miracles at the Sea of Galilee, the Last Supper and the encounter with the Sanhedrin shortly before the crucifixion – demonstrating JESUS' authority over sin, creation, demons, disease, death and sacred rights and spaces.
These events ultimately lead to Jesus' resurrection – an occurrence Bock argued couldn't be fabricated because of counter-intuitive elements in the story, especially that women – barred from being witnesses in the ancient world – were the first witnesses of the resurrection.
"This is how much God thinks of women," Bocks says. "Now here is my point. You are trying to sell a new idea and you are creating a story and in the midst of creating the story the people you pick as witnesses to start the marketing are people who are not eligible as witnesses. Now are you going to make up a story like that? No."
Finally, Bock argued Christ's resurrection represents God's vote in the dispute whether Jesus' authority came from above or below.
"It's a way to tell the story by pointing out the steps of Jesus' authority one step at a time with the last step taking us to the heavenly presence of the Living God," Bock says.
In the second lecture, Moreland, a professor of philosophy at Biola University in La Mirada, California, spoke on the topic, "Has Science Made Belief in God Obsolete?"
"Has science in one way or another shown that those of us who believe in God are like people who believe in Santa Claus?" Moreland asked.
Unfortunately, Moreland says a lot of movers and shakers today believe science has shown belief in God to be "false and silly" – a worldview that has filtered down into the general culture, making it very difficult for them to take the Gospel seriously.
However, Moreland says he profoundly disagrees with this view. Rather, he says the claim that science is the only way to know reality is self-refuting and 95 percent of science is irrelevant to Christianity. The remaining 5 percent interfaces directly with Christianity.
"What I'm suggesting is a large portion of that 5 percent that we discover in science has actually lent support to belief in God," Moreland says.
One of these discoveries is that the universe had a beginning.
"It's as though the universe, as one scientist put it, had the entropy or useful energy put into it from the outside in the very beginning," Moreland says. "Ted Koppel on Nightline once said it looks like bangs have bangers."
Another piece of evidence, which persuaded the "world's most notorious atheist" Antony Flew of God's existence, is the discovery of DNA and the staggeringly complex biological information inside cells. Lastly, Moreland cited the origin of mind and consciousness.
"Now because consciousness exists in us, the most reasonable explanation for the origin of consciousness is that the universe began with a conscious being," Moreland says.
The third speaker, Geisler, a professor of theology and apologetics at Southern Evangelical Seminary, gave a message on the topic of "If God, Why Evil?"
Geisler explored the three basic responses to the problem of evil: pantheism – asserting God exists but evil is an illusion; atheism - claiming evil exists but God doesn't; and theism – arguing both God and evil exist. Geisler told the audience pantheism is unrealistic because suffering is too real and if it's an illusion why does everyone have the same illusion and atheism is "ungrounded" because their admission the universe is cruel and unjust begs the question how they know this.
Rather, Geisler says, evil cries out for God in three ways: First, the fact people recognize evil means there must be a standard of good and a moral prescriber. Moreover, even Friedrich Nietzsche – who famously claimed "God is dead" – admitted the need for God's comfort in times of suffering and evil. Finally, God ensures victory over evil.
The problem for believers, though, is if God is all-good, all-powerful and all-knowing then he would have known evil would exist before he created the universe and life, raising the question why He permits evil, Geisler says. Although it may appear then that God created and permits evil, St. Augustine wrote evil is rather a corruption of the good things God created. And since God gave humanity free will, people can choose to corrupt the good things God created, Geisler says.
"There is no way God can make a free creature that can't do evil because freedom means the ability to do otherwise," Geisler says.
This raises the question of why God allows evil to persist. Atheists argue evil has not been defeated; therefore, no such God exists.
"This is probably the most powerful argument atheists have ever devised," Geisler says.
But Geisler says atheists have omitted a key concept – God has not yet defeated evil. One day, God will defeat evil by separating good from evil.
"Do you know what we do with people who are violent criminals? We quarantine them from society. There has to be a hell or there is no solution to the problem of evil," Geisler says.
Evil, he says, was officially defeated at the cross, but it will actually be defeated with the Second Coming and the Day of Judgment.
"There are almost 100 predictions in the Old Testament about the first coming and they were all literally fulfilled – what city he would be born in, when he would die and how he would die," Geisler says. "Now if 100 percent of the predictions about his first coming were fulfilled, you can bet on 100 percent of the ones about the Second Coming will be fulfilled as well."
This, Geisler told the audience, leads to the last question: What is the purpose of evil? Although people may not understand its purpose, God has a purpose in everything, Geisler says. God permits evil and suffering for the greater good, helping to refine the character of Christians and achieve the salvation of humanity.
"God knew we'd never get to the Promised Land without first going through the wilderness," Geisler says. "God knew Christians would be like tea – their real strength comes out when they get in hot water. God knew you can't get imperfections to the surface unless you put the heat on the gold. The heat of the world and suffering and pain makes the imperfections surface."
Stay tuned for part two of the tothesource report on the Saddleback Apologetics event.
Pastor Rick Warren Welcomes Six Apologists to Saddleback Labor Day Weekend
Admitting pastors can be “groupies too,” Pastor Rick Warren told thousands of people gathered at Saddleback Church to hear “six of the greatest minds in Christian apologetics” that he got an autographed copy of the new book by Christian apologists J.P. Moreland and William Lane Craig.
For years, Warren has wanted to bring together “six of the brightest intellectuals, the sharpest minds and the most noted authorities in the world” to explore the hardest questions and challenges of the Christian faith. That dream became a reality Sept. 5-6 when Darrell Bock, Moreland, Norm Geisler, Craig, Dinesh D’Souza and Greg Koukl spoke at the 22,000-member church during the first annual Ahmanson Lectures on Faith, Science & Reason.
“People sometimes ask me to sign my books, but I’ve always wanted to get J. P. Moreland’s signature,” Warren told the audience at the church in Lake Forest, California. “Pastors are groupies too. I got him to sign ‘Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview.’”
After hearing the speakers, Warren told the audience he reads a lot about faith and science and is amazed at the intelligence of God.
“It’s just mind-boggling when you understand the more we discover about the universe, the more incredible it is … and the more you realize that if it’s a roll of the dice, somebody had to roll them,” Warren says. “It is an amazing thing.”
But Warren wasn’t the only person excited to hear some of the leading Bible scholars in the world delve into weighty questions like what the Gospels really say about Jesus, whether science has made God obsolete and how evil can exist if God is all-good, all-knowing and all-powerful.
Longtime church member and businessman Dennis Pearson says the messages have the potential to set a lot of people’s hearts on fire to share their faith with others.
“The apologists can really open up the wows of God’s ways that hopefully will give people a desire to dig into the deeper things to know more fully who Christ is and who God is,” Pearson says.
Pearson’s wife, Chris, says she and her husband were raised as Mormons and love apologetics.
“That’s my favorite type of book to read, but again, coming from that background, I couldn’t just take these beliefs lightly,” she says. “Having been lied to before, I had to really get in and study. We also love to share our faith so I think it helps us to be ready to have answers for people.”
Kari Shone says she was struck by Moreland’s comments that “science isn’t our adversary.” Shone says people fear that science proves Christianity wrong – a refrain often heard in the media – but in reality it proves the truth of Christianity “in a lot of basic ways.”
“The whole fine-tuning of the universe; there is just no way there isn’t a higher being – someone to create such precision in every way,” Shone says. “And just the whole level of consciousness. I don’t know how someone could think it didn’t come from God creating humans. Where did it come from? It’s just too complex.”
Shone’s husband, Scott, says atheists need to have more faith than Christians.
“When I talk to somebody who is an atheist, I tell them they’ve got to have way more faith than I do because what they believe is way more far-fetched than what I believe,” Shone says.
The Ahmanson Lectures on Faith and Science
Click to watch entire Series at Saddleback Church
http://saddleback.com/mc/services/currentseries.aspx?site=yDi0V4EwP58=&s=OsqcpA0SUkE=
Apologists Bock, Moreland and Geisler Kick-off Saddleback Lecture Series
Darrell Bock
Professor Darrell Bock teaches at Dallas Theological Seminary and has authored over twenty books including New York Times bestseller Breaking the Da Vinci Code. He is also professor for Spiritual Development and Culture for the Center for Christian leadership and a regular blogger and international speaker.
J. P. Moreland
J. P. Moreland is distinguished professor of philosophy at Talbot School of Theology and director of Eidos Christian Center. With degrees in philosophy, theology, and chemistry, Dr. Moreland has taught theology and philosophy at several schools throughout the U.S. He has authored or coauthored many books, including Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview; Christianity and the Nature of Science; Scaling the Secular City; Does God Exist?.
Dr. Norm Geisler
Dr. Norm Geisler is Founder and first President of the International Society of Christian Apologetics, author and co-author of dozens of books and is currently professor of Theology and Apologetics at Southern Evangelical Seminary. Dr. Geisler is an internationally known speaker and has held several pastorates in addition to a long running radio ministry "Quest for Truth".
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Troy Anderson Troy Anderson is an award-winning government and enterprise reporter for the Los Angeles Daily News who also freelances for a variety of national and regional magazines, including Christianity Today and Charisma. During his 17-year career, he has worked as a staff writer at a variety of newspapers and won nearly two dozen national, state and local journalism awards. Anderson graduated from the University of Oregon in 1991 with a bachelor's degree in news-editorial journalism and a minor in political science. He is a longtime member of Investigative Reporters & Editors. He lives with his wife and their 8-year-old daughter in Claremont, California and is active at Granite Creek Community Church. |
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