If you are having trouble viewing this email, click here.
December 4, 2007
by Dr. Daniel N. Robinson

side bar side bar side bar side bar side bar side bar side bar side bar It is surely not Dinesh D'Souza's fault that the debate of November 30, contrasted with his encounter with Christopher Hitchens, was less like the World Series than a slow week during Spring training.   Hitchens was at the top of his game, which made D'Souza's success especially vivid and memorable.  Dennett, whose populist Philosophy has come to enjoy unusual attention in quarters otherwise quite demanding, spent the evening trying to get his curve ball to break, his sinker to drop, his control sharper.  Nothing seemed to work, and the entire encounter seemed rather like a six-inning game.  Still, it was all worth the price of admission, for there is something about the game itself that repays the faithful. 

And the game?  The metaphor may seem ill-chosen, but recall what Schiller had to say in his Letters on the Aesthetic Education of Man:  "Man is never so authentically himself as when at play".  The play of ideas on fields of uncertainty and even danger is a tribute to a rational being who, apart from considerations of survival and prosperity, yearns for self-understanding and evidence – compelling if not convincing – that life has a meaning beyond the moment, beyond time itself.

Readers of any of Dennett's many books (the choice is not decisive, for the messages are pretty much the same in all of them) will find nothing new in his remarks at Tufts.  Design without a designer; the 'beauty' of evolution; God as a human invention; the development of moral sensibility over time by way of rational problem-solving, etc.  Indeed, it is just this power of problem-solving that explains, on Dennett's reckoning, the worldwide decline of religion.  The religionists, he notes, form a community of believers in such diverse and weird propositions as to find little by way of common ground, little by way of shared understanding.  As Dennett summarized the tenets of major and minor and nearly unknown sects, he found support for his contention that all of them come from the same shop; viz., human needs served by human tools.  Nonetheless, religion has formidable powers and should be studied.  Dennett would require children to be instructed in the world's religions, but with what he called "the toxic stuff" removed.  Though he offered his proposal with seeming sincerity, it is clear that the course of study he would require might appear in the curriculum as Rubbish-101.

This, of course, was a curve ball with too little movement to disarm a major league hitter.  D'Souza has seen its like before, hundreds of times in different stadiums.  Thus, in his first appearance at the plate he made clear that the truth of a set of propositions is finally indifferent to the number of persons aware of that truth and, in any case, Christianity's losses in the Anglo-European world are more than made up in Asia, Africa and the Orient.  As for "the toxic stuff", D'Souza reminded the audience that it was godless Communism, and the Nazi combination of Nietzsche and Darwin  that produced body counts of such grotesque proportions.

Again, as with Hitchens, Dennett hoped to pit religion against science, assuming that this was akin to pitting superstition against rationality.  Ah, if matters were only so simple!  What greater advance was made in astronomy than that produced by Kepler?  But Kepler's calculation of planetary motion, his deduction of the laws of this motion, and his estimation of inter-planetary distances were all predicated on the assumption that the five perfect solids of Plato's Timaeus were God's chosen units for the creation of the cosmos.  Now, one might be tempted at this point to urge us to keep Keplerian science and get rid of the 'toxic' platonic stuff, but this would be rash.  Instead, we might accept (with good reason) that Kepler was superior to most of us in his scientific insights, his genius, and ask how this revealed itself, in this case, in his attachment to the Timaeus.  The answer is ready to hand:  Only by assuming that the observable order of the heavens is evidence of a universal, deep ordering well beyond the ambit of human observation, is the larger project of science itself intelligible. 

Dinesh D'Souza employed this same rationale in challenging Dennett's scientism.  The two disagreed on how to interpret what is called the "anthropic cosmological principle."   It should be noted that the principle itself is not immune to criticism.  Nonetheless, calculations at the ultra-micro level of analysis demonstrate the degree to which the very possibility of human life depends on physical constants in the cosmos at large.  It surely seems as if the entire affair was brought about so that we would have shelter in an otherwise mindless universe.  In response to Dennett's rejection of any such interpretation, D'Souza – in what may have been the most memorable statement of the evening -- . concluded, "We are both reasoning in the dark; the only difference is he won't admit it".  

At one point, insisting that he can't "thank God", Dennett was content to "thank goodness".  That very goodness -- expressed in the development of a more caring and generous solicitude toward others, in the growth of our powers of sympathy, our recognition of the dignity of the person – is perhaps what we should be most thankful for.  And its source?  Christianity!  This was D'Souza's bases loaded home run, perhaps undervalued owing to the already lopsided score.  How easy it is to take for granted that our notion of universal human rights, our attitudes toward the handicapped and the defenseless, our recognition of charity as a virtue, our understanding of mercy as "the perfection of justice" are Christian teachings.  It is all this and more that found Evelyn Waugh declaring Western Civilization itself to be creation of Christianity and unimaginable in its absence.  So if Dennett is sincere in being thankful for goodness, he might express this gratitude next time in, say, St. Patrick's Cathedral.  It's not that far from Tufts, at least in mileage.

 

Richard Dawkins's website features atheists comments on Dennett/D'Souza debate.

The pathetic thing is, and I do love Dan Dennett as a Philosopher and Author...but C_____ he could of done better. Shermer too. This is simply pathetic. I've debated people at my school and friends of mine on the same caliber as Dinesh, and obliterated them. As a 21 year old college student, I think I could of done better than Dennett, and Shermer. For the love of goodness Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris, debate this man, or me. I'd gladly do it.
-------------

Despite yours and numerous other posters' low opinions of D'Souza's debating skills, Christopher Hitchens says he's one of the most formidable debaters he has faced.
-------------

I'm sad to say, that you do have a point… I'm afraid people could actually come away from this debate feeling that Dinesh D'Souza - because of his "rhetorical slyness" and well polished manner - made more sense than Dennett. I'm therefore sceptical of the effectiveness of these debates. In Sweden, politicians don't engage in debate with leaders of Racists organisations, simply because they don't want to give their position any validity. It has, to the best of my knowledge, worked. I'm wondering if that principle should be used against speakers such as Dinesh D'Souza?
-------------

Daniel Dennett is a wonderful debater. I admire him enormously. Unfortunately, the eloquent exposition of verifiable facts, masterful application of reason and logic, and a cool, controlled presentation does not guarantee that an argument will be 'won' unless the audience happens to be psychologically and intellectually amenable to it all - in which case one tends to be preaching to the converted (ouch!). It seems that the majority of people are rather less amenable. They seem to be more susceptible to the sort of emotionally charged claptrap delivered by many a dictator and religious zealot. Be that as it may, we can, perhaps, hope that in the more educated regions of the world, the message of the atheists/agnostics will be well received...even if rather unnecessary.
-------------

Yeah I'd like to see Sam Harris destroy D'Souza. I think Harris' style would humilate Dinesh.
-------------

I do enjoy these debates. But I think people are giving D'Souza way too much exposure. I wish Harris v. D'Souza would happen next though. Sam could just repeat his opening statement from his debate with Chris Hedges and that would be the end of it.
-------------

I'm hoping that PZ Myers debates this turd in the future. Myers really deconstructs Dinesh better than anyone I've seen in print.
-------------

I expected Dennett to shred D'Souza and it didn't happen.
-------------

I am no fan of D'Souza and I don't share any of his opinions but as in the debate with Hitchens I feel compelled to point out that he is indeed a formidable opponent. Many here will not like hearing this but I agree with some other comments here along the lines of "D'Souza handed Dennett his ass". Dennett's initial presentation was good, but his rebuttals and answers to D'Souza fell way short, both in specifically addressing D'Souza's points and, specifically, in the manner Dennett presented them. He was no match for the skilled rhetoric and quick-paced sophistry of D'Souza. D'Souza is one of the most talented and skilled demagogues I have seen in the whole unbeliever-vs-theist debate lineup so far. Juvenile slurs against him or a stubborn denial that one of "ours" could have been outperformed in a debate will not change the fact that just as the visiblity of unbelievers grows, the other side will also improve its tactics and bring forth increasingly more experienced and skilled proponents of a theistic worldview and morality. Carping and complaining about this won't help. Our side has do its job and refine their arguments and tactics for increasing the public appeal of a naturalistic and materialist worldview. I honestly believe that this failure of a human... D'Souza has just completely robbed me of my wit, mood and words. I can't understand how anyone debating him would not get exasperated.
-------------

OK, Dennet sucked. I am sick of people that think they do not need to take the time to consider the arguments before time and work out quick responses for the debate. Dennet's "ums" and, "That is just that ol' argument" type of responses just made him look like an ass... I agree somehow, Denet is nice, but the lack of short and clear responses to some of the most retarded statements that D'Souza was shouting, bothered me. I was longing for some of the old Hitchens quick answers... and personally I know by now lots short answers just by watching and reading articles in this site. to an audience who does not know as much as most of us do here, it would seem that Denet was rambling, and lots of mmmh and ahhhs, ... Denet is great when he does a presentation, but not so much when answering on the fly. kinda missed a bit the chance there.
-------------

I don't think Denett's strength is in debate, like Hitchens or Harris. To be a good debater you have to get as much in the time alotted, Dennet simply speaks too slow.
-------------

Well not having listened to the debate I just want to make a general comment. Real time debate is a skill on its own, a bit like oration or rap. Good ideas help, but a lot of it is theatric and rhetorics. So I wouldn't be the least surprised if DDS "won" (based solely on the reviews here and other, similar debates I have heard or seen).

Responses to tothesource articles:

Dr. D'Souza, I feel compelled to write you and tell you how much I appreciated your participation in this debate, and give you the honor of an ardent atheist's confession (i.e. my confession) that you are the clear victor in this debate. Of course, I don't think that you necessarily were victorious over atheism in this debate, but you clearly were victorious over Dennet. I have read one of Dennet's books (Freedom Evolves) and two of yours (What's So Great About Christianity, Letter to a Young Conservative), and so particularly enjoyed the debate. In fact, my grandmother has recently ordered for me your latest book What's So Great About Christianity. I have debated the question of God's existence with scores of believers over the years (including most of my own Catholic family), read the arguments of theists, and even taken a philosophy of religion course here at Santa Clara University; nobody has ever given me a theistic argument that is even -nearly- as impressive as that which you gave in your debate with Dennet. I found it very refreshing to be able to listen to a competent theistic debater. Again, thank you, with great respect, - David Runger

mr. d'souza: first, let me apologize for not using the proper caps when i type. secondly, i want to congratulate you on that debate with (professor) dennett. your rebuttals were clear, precise and easy to understand...where professor dennet's argument or illustrations were stuttered and fuzzy at best. i, myself is an atheist...have been for a long time. however, i have no objections or ill will towards religions. i think religions are ...and generally speaking...a good thing. if one needs to rely on religion to have faith or morality then so be it. i also considered myself a conservative...that is how i found out about the debate when i read the commentaries from "townhall." and since you are an indian, i want to also congratulate on the behalf of indians for the newly elected louisiana governor mr. bobby jindel. i am looking forward to view your other debates when i go home tonight after work...keep up the good work. sincerely, - R.W.C.

"Equal dignity defines the ground on which unimaginable reconciliations become thinkable, such as the peaceable kingdom Isaiah foresaw, where "natural" enemies rest together. An alternative vision is to deny the dignity of others and reap the whirlwind." I'm don't completely agree with this assessment of Isaiah. Yes, Isaiah was looking forward to a future day; but *this* imagery specifically was to stand in contrast to Judah and Israel's present predicament. The more accurate rendering of the future according to Isaiah is "beyond description," as we would say today, since the "new heaven and new earth" will come, and the old will pass (a sad footnote to this is that if you read the final ten or so chapters carefully enough, you sense that Israel was reluctant to accept these visions). That said, I question if human dignity in this life should be equated to visions by Isaiah of either undisruptive quality or "something much better than we have right now. That is to say, I for one am concerned about efforts to sustain human life - and prolong "eternal life," basically - and call this "human dignity." Regards, - John Joachim

"Dignity is a way of saying that human beings have worth simply because they are human beings. People have intrinsic value, absolute value, which must be respected absolutely." Recognizing and experiencing this at the most fundamental core of our being is the essential step to progress from infanthood into humanness. This principle cannot be overstated. It's not just peoples souls that have value, it's the person themselves. It governs how we relate to each other, to our children, and to strangers. I think it is what many aboriginal cultures call " honour ". . I'd also like to commend John Martens on his feedback regarding miracles. "You could even say that miracles are no miracles at all if there is a mind behind all things subatomic." I'm just an amateur scientist, but it struck me while reading Hyperspace , Michio Kaku, that the uncertainty principle really does make miracles possible within a strict scientific worldview. It follows then that when Jesus walked on the water, or just appeared in a room, no natural laws were violated. He doesn't have to violate them, he just applies procedures of which we are ignorant. In my mind this implies a greater Jesus than one who has to, after the fact of creation, tinker with things to make a point, to provide a few exceptions for himself. Keep up the great material. - Darryl Klassen

Dear Editor, Dr. Paul's article on human dignity is excellent. I could not help thinking about the inmates of US prisons. Many are treated humanely, preserving at least that minimum of human dignity, but what about those like Eric Rudolph and the "Unibomber" who are given solitary confinement for life. First, though the death sentence is handed out to far less heinous killers, these men are not given death. Why not? Second, what is the purpose of solitary confinement? Could they somehow contaminate the minds of other prisoners? Then why not give solitary to all the gang leaders and drug lords in prison? Is the purpose to drive them even more insane than they may or may not be already? That would clearly be an affront to human dignity. And we have not really resolved the issue of whether anyone can be considered "guilty but insane." I believe a comprehensive solution must begin by endorsing the Catholic principle of the "seamless garment." State supported killing, whether it is abortion or capital punishment, is only perpetuating the "culture of violence" that degrades human dignity across the board. And that culture of violence must also be seen at work in prisons designed to induce or perpetuate insanity. Christianity, to paraphrase David Bentley Hart, must become the only alternative to the rhetoric of violence that is slowly dragging our culture toward nihilism. - Boyd Holliday

I have just learned about “tothesource” and have just subscribed to the email list. Thanks for providing this terrific content. I would enjoy the option of receiving an RSS feed for the articles, as an alternative to email. However, content is more important than medium! Press on! - Jon Weatherly, PhD

Send your letter to the editor to feedback@tothesource.org.
Click for a Printer Friendly Version
about tothesource
We live complex lives. We strive to sort out priorities that sometimes conflict or seem incompatible. A moral framework is needed to help us understand the reality around us. Our Judeo-Christian heritage provides a framework to help us comprehend the choices we make and the conflicts that arise over them. It is not only the main source of our spiritual values, but also many of the secular values we depend on.

tothesource is a forum for integrating thinking and action within a moral framework that takes into account our contemporary situation. We will report the insights of cultural experts to the specific issues we face believing these sources will embolden people to greater faith and action.
subscribe email a friend
We invite you to subscribe to our free email service
that features informed opinion on current cultural issues.
Dan Robinson Daniel N. Robinson
Daniel N. Robinson is a member of the Philosophy faculty at Oxford University, where he has lectured annually since 1991. He is also Distinguished Professor, Emeritus, at Georgetown University, on whose faculty he served for 30 years. He was formerly Adjunct Professor of Psychology at Columbia University. Professor Robinson earned his Ph.D. in neuropsychology from City University of New York. Prior to taking his position at Georgetown, he held positions at Amherst College, Princeton University, and Columbia University.

Professor Robinson is past president of two divisions of the American Psychological Association: The Division of History of Psychology and the Division of Theoretical and Philosophical Psychology. He is former editor of the Journal of Theoretical and Philosophical Psychology. Professor Robinson is author or editor of more than 40 books, including Wild Beasts & Idle Humours: The Insanity Defense from Antiquity to the Present, An Intellectual History of Psychology, The Mind: An Oxford Reader, and Aristotle's Psychology.
tothesource, P.O. Box 1292, Thousand Oaks, CA 91358
Phone: (805) 241-3138 | Fax: (805) 241-3158 | info@tothesource.org
hit counter